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	<title>Comments on: Men, Beer, &amp; Sex</title>
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	<description>Now This Is The Real World! Where Theology and Real Life Meet.</description>
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		<title>By: wondertwin</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>wondertwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh I agree there too (this is anon 9:20am and 5:17pm).  It would be silly if any religion was &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; based on idealism.  Afterall, if we strive for mediocre, we can only approach mediocrity... but if we strive for the ideal or for perfection, then we can approach perfection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I agree there too (this is anon 9:20am and 5:17pm).  It would be silly if any religion was <i>not</i> based on idealism.  Afterall, if we strive for mediocre, we can only approach mediocrity&#8230; but if we strive for the ideal or for perfection, then we can approach perfection.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon 9:20am - perhaps it may seem to be idealist, but doesn&#039;t that apply to Christianity itself?  Jesus tells us that we must be perfect as His Father is perfect.  G.K. Chesterton put it this way, to live a fully Christian life is not hard, but it is humanly impossible.  In other words, it is only through the grace of the Sacraments and through prayer that we can put aside our selfishness that comes from concupisence and  move ever closer to the holiness that makes this &quot;ideal&quot; a real possibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon 9:20am &#8211; perhaps it may seem to be idealist, but doesn&#8217;t that apply to Christianity itself?  Jesus tells us that we must be perfect as His Father is perfect.  G.K. Chesterton put it this way, to live a fully Christian life is not hard, but it is humanly impossible.  In other words, it is only through the grace of the Sacraments and through prayer that we can put aside our selfishness that comes from concupisence and  move ever closer to the holiness that makes this &#8220;ideal&#8221; a real possibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>what are you talking about? women shouldn&#039;t be allowed rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what are you talking about? women shouldn&#8217;t be allowed rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 13:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I see, David.  Very nice.  My comment before was, of course, reffering to within the context of marriage.

That&#039;s a nice way of thinking of marriage and what I suppose is &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; being &quot;submissive&quot; to another.  A bit of an idealist view, but one that should in theory be pretty natural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see, David.  Very nice.  My comment before was, of course, reffering to within the context of marriage.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a nice way of thinking of marriage and what I suppose is <i>really</i> being &#8220;submissive&#8221; to another.  A bit of an idealist view, but one that should in theory be pretty natural.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;Why do women have to go through men to be sumissive to God?&lt;/i&gt;

Anon - I discuss this in some of my previous posts you might want to search the archives for mutual submission.  In short, women do not need to submit to men; wives must be submissive to their husbands.  In other words, this submission is limited to the Great Mystery that St. Paul talks about in Ephesians 5.  It is not a general requirement of women to men.  This is important.

However, even in the Great Mystery of Ephesians 5, it begins exactly as you intuit. St. Paul says that husbands and wives must submit to each other out of reverence for Christ.  He focuses on the wife&#039;s submission to her husband as the Church submits to her Bridegroom.  This is your answer as to why wives must submit to the authority of their husbands.  The husband is given authority over his family in order to guide them in the ways of Christ so that all are sanctified.  But this authority, as Jesus says, is one of service not of power or caprice.  This is the same as submitting to Church authority or submitting to secular authority.  Authority is participation in God&#039;s authority for the sole purpose of serving.  That is the point the commenters are making--if a husband lives up to his responsibility of serving his family for their salvation, submitting is a joy not oppression.

So what is this mutual submission?  Well the husband is not a divine person as is Christ.  He does not have all of the gifts necessary.  As Pius XI points out, and John Paul the Great continues, women have primacy in the order of love.  The husband must submit to his wife&#039;s primacy in love.  The result of this is that proper decision making is done in mutual reciprocity.  A consensus if you will.  However, there may be some cases when this is not possible.  In the end, the husband will have to answer to God for the way he has used his authority to serve his family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Why do women have to go through men to be sumissive to God?</i></p>
<p>Anon &#8211; I discuss this in some of my previous posts you might want to search the archives for mutual submission.  In short, women do not need to submit to men; wives must be submissive to their husbands.  In other words, this submission is limited to the Great Mystery that St. Paul talks about in Ephesians 5.  It is not a general requirement of women to men.  This is important.</p>
<p>However, even in the Great Mystery of Ephesians 5, it begins exactly as you intuit. St. Paul says that husbands and wives must submit to each other out of reverence for Christ.  He focuses on the wife&#8217;s submission to her husband as the Church submits to her Bridegroom.  This is your answer as to why wives must submit to the authority of their husbands.  The husband is given authority over his family in order to guide them in the ways of Christ so that all are sanctified.  But this authority, as Jesus says, is one of service not of power or caprice.  This is the same as submitting to Church authority or submitting to secular authority.  Authority is participation in God&#8217;s authority for the sole purpose of serving.  That is the point the commenters are making&#8211;if a husband lives up to his responsibility of serving his family for their salvation, submitting is a joy not oppression.</p>
<p>So what is this mutual submission?  Well the husband is not a divine person as is Christ.  He does not have all of the gifts necessary.  As Pius XI points out, and John Paul the Great continues, women have primacy in the order of love.  The husband must submit to his wife&#8217;s primacy in love.  The result of this is that proper decision making is done in mutual reciprocity.  A consensus if you will.  However, there may be some cases when this is not possible.  In the end, the husband will have to answer to God for the way he has used his authority to serve his family.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What about submitting to each other?  I think a marriage should be one where both are submissive to the other person, regardless of gender.  Why do women have to go through men to be sumissive to God?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about submitting to each other?  I think a marriage should be one where both are submissive to the other person, regardless of gender.  Why do women have to go through men to be sumissive to God?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The modern paradigmn of a feminist, in what I see, is the celebration of masculinity in women. On the other side of the spectrum, is the celebration of femininity in men, or the term gay. It&#039;s like our country has become a dictatorship of relativism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The modern paradigmn of a feminist, in what I see, is the celebration of masculinity in women. On the other side of the spectrum, is the celebration of femininity in men, or the term gay. It&#8217;s like our country has become a dictatorship of relativism.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joyce, you used the 10 letter word, which has a really negative connotation by today&#039;s standards. I don&#039;t think many realize that we are submmissive to a husband, we are ultimately submmitting to God. Real power comes from the humility and trust in God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joyce, you used the 10 letter word, which has a really negative connotation by today&#8217;s standards. I don&#8217;t think many realize that we are submmissive to a husband, we are ultimately submmitting to God. Real power comes from the humility and trust in God.</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce M</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also, Mr. Fagan said, &quot;When you do it God&#039;s way, it&#039;s perfect.  It just flows like water.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Mr. Fagan said, &#8220;When you do it God&#8217;s way, it&#8217;s perfect.  It just flows like water.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce M</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/09/29/men-beer-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, since no one has said ANYTHING...I&#039;ll put my one cent in!
First, let us &quot;ladies&quot; thank GOD for men still around who believe this way !  I Thank David, John, and Mr. Fagan (from his statement in &quot;The Cathlic Telegraph) for speaking out about relaiming our SPIRITUAL heritage.  I am one women who says &quot;feminine equality&quot; has gone too far and enough is enough already! Mr. Fagan gave a wonderful synopsis, &quot;One of the key things that I learned is that to be a Catholic husband, you are first obedient to the Father, Son, and Spirit. What wife wouldn&#039;t want to be submissive to a man who is submissive to God?&quot;...Amen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, since no one has said ANYTHING&#8230;I&#8217;ll put my one cent in!<br />
First, let us &#8220;ladies&#8221; thank GOD for men still around who believe this way !  I Thank David, John, and Mr. Fagan (from his statement in &#8220;The Cathlic Telegraph) for speaking out about relaiming our SPIRITUAL heritage.  I am one women who says &#8220;feminine equality&#8221; has gone too far and enough is enough already! Mr. Fagan gave a wonderful synopsis, &#8220;One of the key things that I learned is that to be a Catholic husband, you are first obedient to the Father, Son, and Spirit. What wife wouldn&#8217;t want to be submissive to a man who is submissive to God?&#8221;&#8230;Amen</p>
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