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	<title>Comments on: Are You Liberal or Conservative?</title>
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	<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/</link>
	<description>Now This Is The Real World! Where Theology and Real Life Meet.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: COSMOS-LITURGY-SEX &#187; C-L-S: &#8220;A Far-Right Catholic Website&#8221;?</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-1018</link>
		<dc:creator>COSMOS-LITURGY-SEX &#187; C-L-S: &#8220;A Far-Right Catholic Website&#8221;?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-1018</guid>
		<description>[...] However, Sullivan then does exactly that of which he accuses Fr. Neuhaus. Sullivan attempts to dismiss the arguments by undermining the credibility of a &#8220;far-right Catholic website&#8221; that uses a review done by &#8220;Pat Robertson&#8217;s &#8216;Regent University&#8217;&#8221; which analyzed a study done by Dr. Paul Cameron. Hmmm, I wonder how he knows we are &#8220;far-right.&#8221; You might have noticed that we have absolutely no political postings here by design. I suppose he falls into the trap of misapplying 18th century political constructs as euphemisms for whether or not one follows his personal desires or the Truth of Christ as taught by His Church (see here for some further thoughts on this). I suppose the ad hominem approach is quite conveneint for those who wish to be able to dismiss someone as having no credibility rather than having to deal with his arguments. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] However, Sullivan then does exactly that of which he accuses Fr. Neuhaus. Sullivan attempts to dismiss the arguments by undermining the credibility of a &#8220;far-right Catholic website&#8221; that uses a review done by &#8220;Pat Robertson&#8217;s &#8216;Regent University&#8217;&#8221; which analyzed a study done by Dr. Paul Cameron. Hmmm, I wonder how he knows we are &#8220;far-right.&#8221; You might have noticed that we have absolutely no political postings here by design. I suppose he falls into the trap of misapplying 18th century political constructs as euphemisms for whether or not one follows his personal desires or the Truth of Christ as taught by His Church (see here for some further thoughts on this). I suppose the ad hominem approach is quite conveneint for those who wish to be able to dismiss someone as having no credibility rather than having to deal with his arguments. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Here's a problem not mentioned so far:  Pope Benedict XVI is NOW considered a hardline conservative -- but that tells us more about the yardstick used than about His Holiness.  John Paul was labelled an extremist for teaching what the Church has always taught.  How is staying in the same place an "extreme" policy, in and of itself?  
Chris Garton-Zavesky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a problem not mentioned so far:  Pope Benedict XVI is NOW considered a hardline conservative &#8212; but that tells us more about the yardstick used than about His Holiness.  John Paul was labelled an extremist for teaching what the Church has always taught.  How is staying in the same place an &#8220;extreme&#8221; policy, in and of itself?<br />
Chris Garton-Zavesky</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2005 03:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-228</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;For almost all Catholics, including the so-called "orthodox" ones, personality has gotten too confused with authority.&lt;/i&gt;

That may or may not be so, but it does not negate the Magisterium's authority which the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) has pointed out is codified within the Catechism itself.  That is a sure source of authoritative teaching which is not conflated with personality.


&lt;i&gt;I remain doubtful of your definition of unity; it seems too much like uniformity to me.&lt;/i&gt;

It's not mine; check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church on unity:
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#ONE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For almost all Catholics, including the so-called &#8220;orthodox&#8221; ones, personality has gotten too confused with authority.</i></p>
<p>That may or may not be so, but it does not negate the Magisterium&#8217;s authority which the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) has pointed out is codified within the Catechism itself.  That is a sure source of authoritative teaching which is not conflated with personality.</p>
<p><i>I remain doubtful of your definition of unity; it seems too much like uniformity to me.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not mine; check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church on unity:<br />
<a href="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#ONE" rel="nofollow">http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#ONE</a></p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-227</guid>
		<description>"If we do not first trust in the authority of the Church to teach us the truth about ..."

For almost all Catholics, including the so-called "orthodox" ones, personality has gotten too confused with authority. In some cases, bishops and pope are not transparent enough, and themselves become an obstacle to the truth of which you speak. In others, Catholics on all sides of the divide are too ready to heap scorn on the bad bishop of their choice, seriously short-circuiting the traditional approach and rendering the holder of orthodoxy to be the self.

I remain doubtful of your definition of unity; it seems too much like uniformity to me. Liberals and conservatives can still work together. Those who opt out of such arrangements, no matter what their views on crystallized Church teaching on gender and sex, are no better than the garden variety of cafeteria Catholics they vilify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If we do not first trust in the authority of the Church to teach us the truth about &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>For almost all Catholics, including the so-called &#8220;orthodox&#8221; ones, personality has gotten too confused with authority. In some cases, bishops and pope are not transparent enough, and themselves become an obstacle to the truth of which you speak. In others, Catholics on all sides of the divide are too ready to heap scorn on the bad bishop of their choice, seriously short-circuiting the traditional approach and rendering the holder of orthodoxy to be the self.</p>
<p>I remain doubtful of your definition of unity; it seems too much like uniformity to me. Liberals and conservatives can still work together. Those who opt out of such arrangements, no matter what their views on crystallized Church teaching on gender and sex, are no better than the garden variety of cafeteria Catholics they vilify.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-226</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The real challenge is not to eliminate name-calling (or box-putting, or whatever) but to induce working together. &lt;/i&gt;

I do not think that a pragmatist approach is an authentic path to a unity of faith.  Neither is it possible to arrive at the truths of faith through reason alone.

A real unity is first a unity of faith based upon trust in Christ and therefore, trust in his Church.  Unity is real because of our unity with Christ and his mystical body. We separate ourselves from Christ to the degree we separate ourselves from his Church and the truths she teaches.

If we do not first trust in the authority of the Church to teach us the truth about, for example, the real character of the priesthood, then the rest of our faith seems to be accidental.  I mean that we just seem to have a common agreement with the Church.  The type of "unity" that you speak about will end in the fractioning we see in Protestantism.  The most emblematic instance being the fractioning we see taking place in the Anglican communion today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The real challenge is not to eliminate name-calling (or box-putting, or whatever) but to induce working together. </i></p>
<p>I do not think that a pragmatist approach is an authentic path to a unity of faith.  Neither is it possible to arrive at the truths of faith through reason alone.</p>
<p>A real unity is first a unity of faith based upon trust in Christ and therefore, trust in his Church.  Unity is real because of our unity with Christ and his mystical body. We separate ourselves from Christ to the degree we separate ourselves from his Church and the truths she teaches.</p>
<p>If we do not first trust in the authority of the Church to teach us the truth about, for example, the real character of the priesthood, then the rest of our faith seems to be accidental.  I mean that we just seem to have a common agreement with the Church.  The type of &#8220;unity&#8221; that you speak about will end in the fractioning we see in Protestantism.  The most emblematic instance being the fractioning we see taking place in the Anglican communion today.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>I'm unsure of the current trend for some Catholics to distance themselves from conservativism per se.

I think a wise Catholic (or any person, for that matter) will have opinions on issues that do not reflect the plank statements of political parties nor the editorial positions of certain media outlets. I had a classmate who could be described as a traditionalist Catholic, but he was also an ardent pacifist.

I think some Catholics are liberal or conservative in general outlook. There are also degrees of dissent from both authoritative and prudential church teaching--those lines are not always as clear as either conservative or liberal proponents sometimes suggest. Does dissent need to be the "take-out-an-ad" or "ordain-your-own-pope" in-your-face variety? Can a good Catholic have interior reservations about women's ordination? Or does it become problematic only when mentioned during cocktail hour, to one's parish priest, or by attending an ordination cruise?

I confess my own theological reservations about women's ordination, so does that make me a damned dissenter? I'm hardly going to attend the ordination of a woman, and at this point, I think the value of Church unity supercedes people taking matters into their own hands. So if I'm not going to actively support women priests or urge others to consider my reservations, is that enough? 

Frankly, I'm not about to let traditionalist Catholics, either clergy or lay, decide that for me. (Though I'm sure people have their opinions ready formed.)

The real challenge is not to eliminate name-calling (or box-putting, or whatever) but to induce working together. In my experience, I've worked wonderfully well with many Catholics of traditional sensibility. My question is more pragmatic: Will you lead music at a Mass with me? Will you join or even chair a committee in my parish for me? Would you write a book on good liturgy with me?

Dropping labels and watching language is fine as it goes. But I want to see some action behind the sentiment, if you know what I mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m unsure of the current trend for some Catholics to distance themselves from conservativism per se.</p>
<p>I think a wise Catholic (or any person, for that matter) will have opinions on issues that do not reflect the plank statements of political parties nor the editorial positions of certain media outlets. I had a classmate who could be described as a traditionalist Catholic, but he was also an ardent pacifist.</p>
<p>I think some Catholics are liberal or conservative in general outlook. There are also degrees of dissent from both authoritative and prudential church teaching&#8211;those lines are not always as clear as either conservative or liberal proponents sometimes suggest. Does dissent need to be the &#8220;take-out-an-ad&#8221; or &#8220;ordain-your-own-pope&#8221; in-your-face variety? Can a good Catholic have interior reservations about women&#8217;s ordination? Or does it become problematic only when mentioned during cocktail hour, to one&#8217;s parish priest, or by attending an ordination cruise?</p>
<p>I confess my own theological reservations about women&#8217;s ordination, so does that make me a damned dissenter? I&#8217;m hardly going to attend the ordination of a woman, and at this point, I think the value of Church unity supercedes people taking matters into their own hands. So if I&#8217;m not going to actively support women priests or urge others to consider my reservations, is that enough? </p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m not about to let traditionalist Catholics, either clergy or lay, decide that for me. (Though I&#8217;m sure people have their opinions ready formed.)</p>
<p>The real challenge is not to eliminate name-calling (or box-putting, or whatever) but to induce working together. In my experience, I&#8217;ve worked wonderfully well with many Catholics of traditional sensibility. My question is more pragmatic: Will you lead music at a Mass with me? Will you join or even chair a committee in my parish for me? Would you write a book on good liturgy with me?</p>
<p>Dropping labels and watching language is fine as it goes. But I want to see some action behind the sentiment, if you know what I mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>There was some initial confusion oh how to label JP II when he died. The network and cable talking heads couldn't figure out how he could be pro-life and, at the same time, take a stand on social justice. In the end, his stand on abortion, same sex marriage and contraception was just too much to deserve anything else than the conservative stamp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was some initial confusion oh how to label JP II when he died. The network and cable talking heads couldn&#8217;t figure out how he could be pro-life and, at the same time, take a stand on social justice. In the end, his stand on abortion, same sex marriage and contraception was just too much to deserve anything else than the conservative stamp.</p>
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		<title>By: Visaggio</title>
		<link>http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Visaggio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/2005/07/27/are-you-liberal-or-conservative/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>Really a grand post. You've pinpointed all the reasons I've disregarded those labels entirely for myself.

If pressed, I'll call myself a McCain Republican or a Moderate, but I tend to say "I am neither conservative nor liberal. I am Catholic." That is, my faith informs my politics, which really kind of sucks for me because it means I will probably be writing in candidates for the _rest of my life_. So disgusted with both parties am I!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really a grand post. You&#8217;ve pinpointed all the reasons I&#8217;ve disregarded those labels entirely for myself.</p>
<p>If pressed, I&#8217;ll call myself a McCain Republican or a Moderate, but I tend to say &#8220;I am neither conservative nor liberal. I am Catholic.&#8221; That is, my faith informs my politics, which really kind of sucks for me because it means I will probably be writing in candidates for the _rest of my life_. So disgusted with both parties am I!</p>
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